Curse

Kamatsu · May 24, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Hello,

I've created a new Canthan ranger and am undecided whether to go R/Mo or R/Rt. Both classes give a hard rez (which is my main reason for either class).

I was thinking of Ritualist for Brutal Weapon, but without adding much in it's attribute I'd be lucky to get 2 attack's in with the bonus damage - generally without much invested I was finding it only lasted 1 attack. Which IMO isn't worth it for 10 energy..

Question - Does expertise effect weapon spells? (since it's a spell I doubt it..)

Technically if I want high Expertise and high marksmanship I won't have many point's left over. And I don't know if 4-6 (?) points in communing (right attribute?) will really make Brutal Weapon worth using - the bonus damage is ok, but the duration at 4-6 points isn't that great. I'd be lucky to get 2 attack's out with it. It might be good with mass/fast attack skills.. but apart from Barrage is there any mass/fast attack skills it's worth using with? even if it only last's 5-7 seconds max..

The other thought was R/Mo with the damage increasing enchantment.. but that only adds ~5 damage.. and as it's an enchant is susceptible to enchant stripping. It also takes 1 pip of energy regen away.. which can hurt in a big fight if I use lots of skills, even with high expertise. There was also the consideration of use of the spell which convert's damage to holy damage and 20% armor penatration... but that once again has the same drawbacks as it's s msintained enchant.

In the end on my original Ranger.. I never used any of my monk skills. I used 100% pure ranger skills.. but I admit rit weapon spells interest me, but the practicality of the weapon spells is a concern for me.. not sure it's worth going rit for a spell which has limited use and effect and duration..

BTW, please don't come up and say something like "BW & Barrage is great!". I'm sure that it's a great combination.. but I'm not interested in a barrage build. I know barrage is a good skill (I have used it before with my old ranger) but I only count on using elites when I get them - thus builds and idea's I come up with are for non-elite skills.. at least till I get the elites.

Right now I'm looking at like following build:

Dual Shot
Power Shot
Hunter's Shot
Read The Wind
Charm animal
Comfort Animal
Rez spell
XX - maybe used for pet enhancing skill, or monk enchants or BW or a defensive skill

These are skill's I have access to right now.. I'm not 100% hard set on the pet, but I find the pet useful in PvE and the skill I'd use would make it more useful by increasing it's attack speed and movement speed. Thge pet would require BM point's however.. so if I went Rit with BW I'd likely drop the pet .. or maybe not - but with no point's in BM it really wouldn't do much damage.

To be honest I'm not sure how much use I'd have for BW.. although it might be nice for using vs bosses or other hard to kill monster's.. or so increased pet damage or something.. but again, for decent BW I'd have low BM.. so pet's damage wouldn't be high anyways...

Any thoughts form people would be welcome - as long as it's not "Use XXX Elite skill!". I'm only posting this because 99.99% of the builds and post's here revolve around the use of elite's.. and as it stands right now Elite's are not a consideration for what I'm planning on doing. I want advise as to the use of BW or the monk enchants in Faction's PvE or just to ignore them.. Thanx.

Gusnana1412 · May 24, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

~ for me R/Rt with Flesh of My Flesh (FoMF), fast res <3 it

Expertise only affect Spirit, so far as i know~
For easy build BH[E], savage, marauder, beastial fury, AP, comf, charm, FoMF ~
>.< what is BW? ~

Wolydarg · May 24, 2006, 12:48 PM // 12:48

BW = Brutal Weapon

I'd go R/Mo just for Rebirthing when your party gets owned in a mission...

Flesh of your flesh while you're the only one left and monsters get aggro'd while your casting leaves both of you with half life and ready to get owned...

Also you should have at least one interrupt to catch healing sigs/troll unguent at the very least

Azmodan · May 24, 2006, 12:58 PM // 12:58

If you want to go with bow attacks, get rid of the pet. If you don't pump some points into Beast Mastery and use pet attacks, your pet will die quick and often. Everytime your pet dies, all of your skills are disabled for 4 seconds.

I am mainly a Beast Master, so I have 15 points in BM. I also have 13 or 14 in Marksmanship, 9 in expertise, and 4 in Wilderness Survival.

I carry 5 pet skills, troll unguent, poison arrow, and a hard rez.

I don't think Brutal Weapon is worth the attribute point for what it does. You can use Read the Wind instead. It will deal 9 additional damage for 24 seconds at 12 Marksmanship. And all for 5 less energy.

Kamatsu · May 24, 2006, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Gusnana1412 - I suspected Expertise wouldn't effect Weapon spells. Which does make BW less of an appeal..

Wolydarg - LOL yeah, hard rez that you have to be in range of (the body) can be nasty if the bodies are being camped by some evil body camping monsters!

I'll work with an Interrupt as needed. I personally don't use interrupts much as my own person skills on timing interuppt's isn't that great.. but I do use interrupt skills when it will help the group out (I am flexible with my build.. the build I mentioned is a "basic" damage type build).

Azmodan - I was debating with BM because you get Tiger's Fury (err Bestial fury in Factions) which increases your attack speed and on semi-decent BM it should be maintainable.. and if the pet is just being used as a damage/aggro sponge.. Call of Protection will really enhance that (ok, I know I can get Call of Haste in Shea Jae (sp?) Monestry.. not sure about CoP..)

But yeah, that skills timeout when the pet dies is not very nice.. and if it happens a lot, it can make the difference between winning and having to re-start a mission/quest/area/etc.

Concerning RtW - doesn't BW & RtW stack? To be honest I'm not sure as I have used them both and it doesn't seem to have any noticable damage increase (or maybe I'm just blind.. LOL). But once again.. it comes down to the fact that without a good amount in Communing (right attribute?) BW won't last very long... and 10 energy for 1 atatck with +4-7? damage.. doesn't really seem wotrth it IMO...

Course I've read post's here and on GWO stating BW with ranger is great.. but they are always using Barrage.. which for me right now is NOT a consideration.

course I most likely could have decent marksmanship and expertise and have high communing (?) for decent length BW.. but wouldn't have max on bow attack skills.. and it seems sorta silly pumping 1 attribute right up for just 1 spell...iirc wiki said it lasted 15 sec @ 12 attribute.. worth loosing marksman and WS/BM and Expertise for BW? not sure.

Azmodan · May 24, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

With zero points in Beast Mastery, Bestial fury will still last 5 seconds. It goes up 1 second for every 2 attribute points you put into BM.

Call of protection has a 1-11 base damage reduction.

For the 2 of them to be truly effective, you need to max out BM.

In place of Beastial Fury, you could use Lightning Reflexes. I know that Lightning Reflexes has a long recharge time, but it also gives the 75% chance to evade melee and projectile attacks.

Everything has an upside and a downside.

ZennZero · May 24, 2006, 01:49 PM // 13:49

kamatsu,

While expertise does not effect Weapon enchantments, it *does* work with binding rituals. Using low-cost spirits may help supplement your build, whether you are going for damage or defense.

Being able to drop a Pain spirit, for instance, for just 2en (at 13 expertise) is pretty nice.

Pick Me · May 24, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

In my opinion, I would go with the Monk.

I have a R/Mo at the moment and he has done quite well.

Pros: Ritualist:
Vengeful Weapon - For 8 seconds, the next time target ally takes damage from a foe, that ally steals upto 20 life from foe

Resilent Weapon: For X seconds, when target ally is suffering from a hex or condition, that ally gains +1 regeneration +24 armor

Recouperation: Fir X seconds, all allies in the area gain +1 - +3 rengeration

Mend Body and Soul: Heals upto 70 health and if there is a spirit in the area, remove 1 condition per spirit

Flesh of My Flesh: transfer 1/2 of your current health to dead ally. Ally gains 5% energy back

Mighty Was Vorizon: hold ashes and gain upto +15 armor and upto +20 max energy (good for traping)

Earthbind: all foes in area are knocked down for 3 seconds, spirit loses health

Dissonance: Spirit hits foe, foe is interupted

Disenchantment: Spirit hits foe, foes loses an enchantment

Wailing Weapon: target ally hits while enchanted (classified as a weapon spell, not an enchantment), foe is interupted, lasts 5-10 seconds

Splinter Weapon: 15-51 seconds, next successful attack, target foe and adjacent foes take +5 - +41 damage (weapons spell)

Nightmare Weapon: for 12 seconds, target ally's next successful attack steals 5-41 life from foe

Pros: Monks:
Rebirth
Judge's Insite
Reversal of Fortune
Protective Spirit
Mend Ailment
Holy Veil
Resurrect
Remove Hex
Vigorous Spirit
Live Vicariously

The main concern is what do you plan to use? You have stated that you want basically pure ranger skills (except for a sig of cap and a res spell). The monk can remove hexes that are placed on you and you can remove conditions as well. Ritualists cannot remove hexes, but you can either have a small heal regen to counter a hex/condition, or remove 1 condition for every spirit around you.

I am going to assume you will have points into WS and not into Healing or Restoration. That is why most healing spells aren't listed.

What I carry is:
Barrage/Greater Conflag/Melandru's Arrow/Ignite Arrow
Winter (depends on if I use Greater Conflag/Ignite Arrow or not or in Fire areas)
Troll Unguent
Serpent's Quickness
Dryders Defense (only if I have Greater Conflag)
Dual Shot (If I don't use Barrage)
Reading The Winds
Savage Shot
Rebirth

Options:
Mend Ailment
Remove Hex (or Holy Veil)
Favorable Winds
Distracting Shot

My running build is completely different (as it should be).

This is just my opinion though.

SnipiousMax · May 24, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Since reading your post, I went back and looked at both the monk and ritualist skill set, and to be honest, it comes down to which rez spell like better.

Of the weapon spells, only three really apply to what you've implied you want to do with your build. Brutal weapon costs 10 energy, and at 4 Communing deals a measly 8 damage per attack, and you'd be lucky to get off two. Nightmare weapon has promise, but all it really does is takes 21 damage you'd have dealt (at 4 channeling) and turn it into unblockable damage that isn't affected by armor. Problem with that one is that while it costs only five energy, it only affects one attack. Splinter weapon was another I looked at, and it dealt 17 damage to enemies adjacent to your target....which again isn't astounding damage, and the energy cost was too high for just one attack.

With the monk, there is really only Judges Inisght, and the AP you get from it will only be effective against enemies with higher armor. I don't see any of the healing or protection spells being useful. But Expertise does affect a few smiting skills I think, and someone posted a build that used smite to tie together a long combo of quick attacks.

The Ressurection spells are essetianly balanaced, but I'd go with Rebirth so you can drag the person being resurected back to you.

Francis Demeules · May 24, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

A point I want to add about weapon spell. If it writed for the next attack, Dual shot and Barrage doesnt work. I mean, it will take only 1 of your arrows and enchance with the weapon spell. I tested during the beta.

Edit:Wailing weapon in Channeling is good too, but the foe must attack to do its effect.

SnipiousMax · May 24, 2006, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Brutal weapon costs 10 energy, and at 4 Communing deals a measly 8 damage per attack, and you'd be lucky to get off two.

Looked at it again, at 7 in Communing it lasts 12 seconds, and deals 10 damage. if you could get off six shots (assuming short bow) that'd be 60 damage for 10 energy. I'm not sure if it makes up for/surpasses the damage you lose from what you'd have to take from marks to make up the difference, but that still seems a little energy heavy.

Gusnana1412 · May 24, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Just want to add something
Mo == more enchantment type of skills
Rt == less enchanment type of skills

also Vital Weapon (Rt) : Weapon Spell. For 30 seconds target ally has a Vital Weapon and has +40...148 maximum Health. 5e, 1s, 20s ~

Pick Me · May 24, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Vital Weapon and Vital Blessing should be put together as not being useful. Rangers have the same ability (but does it for everything in the area). The only way that would be useful is to put it on a W/N tank. Both professioins have self-only increase health abilities. Use Endure Pain + Defy Pain + Demonic Flesh, then have someone cast on them Vital Weapon and Vital Blessing and have the Ranger use Symbiosis and Fertile Seasons and have the W/N encumbered with enchanements, and a stance, and you get a massive tower of health.

Judge's Insight turns all of your attacks into Holy Damage. So undead get X2 damage. Yes, the higher the defense, the more damage inflicted.

Since you won't take Barrage (I think that's what you said before), Weapon spells will work (Dual Shot is a weaker form of Barrage, in my opinion).

Gusnana1412 · May 24, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Vital Weapon and Vital Blessing should be put together as not being useful. Rangers have the same ability (but does it for everything in the area). The only way that would be useful is to put it on a W/N tank. Both professioins have self-only increase health abilities. Use Endure Pain + Defy Pain + Demonic Flesh, then have someone cast on them Vital Weapon and Vital Blessing and have the Ranger use Symbiosis and Fertile Seasons and have the W/N encumbered with enchanements, and a stance, and you get a massive tower of health.
....

I disagree with you, Vital Weapon with only 6 point on Communing give you temporary +94 HP ~its enough to help you run from death and Vital Weapon is not an Enchantment, so no worries from shatter dmg.

Kamatsu · May 25, 2006, 12:52 PM // 12:52

First of all, thank you for the replies so far

ZennZero - The idea of using spirit's such as Pain is a handy idea. Although it would be mainly for long battles where I wouldn't mind loosing mobility. I admit one of the reason's I scrapped playing ritualist was the times waiting for spirit's to recharge to be used again..

Although I admit I can see the use of spirit's in a build.. even if they don't last long or do too much damage.. they could be useful. But to use them would mean sacrificing an attack/defese skill.. assuming I had a pet with me. Without the pet I do free up 2-3 skill slot's.. which is very handy..

Azmodan - thats the problem with a balanced system.. everything has it's upside and downside :P

Gah.. I just checked and BF has the exact same drawback that BW has.. without 12+ in BM.. it won't be able to be kept on full-time.. so would again be left with a 10 energy (although this cost IS reduced by expertise) spell I can only have up half the time... hmm....

SnipiousMax - in the end you might just be right. Especially if I end up using all ranger skills like I did with my previous ranger. I had planned on the enchant to deal holy damage.. but ANet in their wisdom made sure every group had mass enchant stripper's.. so that idea went out the window. Not really sure any of the weapon spells really suit me, especially since I'd have to virtually have 10-12 points in it's attribute to even make it worthwhile.. might be better off with just ranger attack's and a hard rez..

Pick Me - thanx fior the input. good to finally see a build without depending on elites (and yes, I know you have them there.. but they are "if you want / need" setup).

That's sorta semi what I'm looking at.. prolly will end up just going r/Mo and forgetting the weapon spells, at least until later when I have more attribute points and some elite's that I can worth with.. then I'll see.

Francis Demeules - Oooh, I sisn't know that. sorta makes using those weapon spells with DS/B meaningless then... Hmm. tested in the beta,.. any idea if it's changed? although I seriously doubt they would change it.. that could make certain combo's over-powered (splinter & barrage vs multiple groups all close together comes to mind...)

SnipiousMax - 10 energy for 60 damage or so.. not sure if that's really worth it or not. If it stacks with RtW and damage skills then that extra damage could be very, very heft indeed.. but still, 5 energy for ~30 damage.. *shrugs*

BTW Pick Me - it's not that I refuse to use or take Barrage.. I just don't like working on character idea's and builds and thoughts based around what elite's I will have later on in the game. When I get the elites, then I see how I can use them (if I do). It's always annoyed me when new players ask for build advice .. virtually all the builds they get involve the use of elites .. which new players won't get for awhile unless they get run to them... but that's just a pet peeve of mine.

So for me, when I try and decice what secondary and such.. I keep in mind possible future builds using elites, but initially I plan on using non-elite skills I have access too and work on adding elites as I get them.

Gusnana1412 - Hmm, I can see how vuital Weapon could be used for quick hp for when things get tough and I need to get out of placed.. between that and a decent defense skill it could work..

but see, if I can avoid taking aggro myself.. apart from getting hit by AoE's or damage-upon-attacking/etc type issue's.. hp shouldn't really be an issue. although my opinion on this might change as I get further along the storyline

Francis Demeules · May 25, 2006, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamatsu

Francis Demeules - Oooh, I sisn't know that. sorta makes using those weapon spells with DS/B meaningless then... Hmm. tested in the beta,.. any idea if it's changed? although I seriously doubt they would change it.. that could make certain combo's over-powered (splinter & barrage vs multiple groups all close together comes to mind...)

Some Weapons Spells doesnt works on each arrows but it works only with the only arrow to the left in Barrage or Dual shot

here for the exemple with Splinter weapons

Splinter_Test_Bow.jpg

Kamatsu · May 30, 2006, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

Some Weapons Spells doesnt works on each arrows but it works only with the only arrow to the left in Barrage or Dual shot

here for the exemple with Splinter weapons

Attachment 22967

Ok, thanx for the update on that. I appreciate it

I gather spells such as Brutal Weapon work with all shots in Barrage or Dual-Shot?

Maybe Brutal Weapon followed by Dual-Shot would be a good combo at least for awhile?

PS - Does Brutal Weapon's damage stack with attack skills such as Power Attack?

Gusnana1412 · May 30, 2006, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamatsu

...

I gather spells such as Brutal Weapon work with all shots in Barrage or Dual-Shot?

Maybe Brutal Weapon followed by Dual-Shot would be a good combo at least for awhile?

PS - Does Brutal Weapon's damage stack with attack skills such as Power Attack?

Brutal Weapon works for every arrows you shot, either Barrage or Dual Shot.
Brutal Weapon + Kindle Arrow + Dual Shot == good dmg, energy prob~
Brutal Weapon's dmg stack with any other attack skills, as long as the barrier under no enchanment, so BW will not work with JI, OoV, OoP, etc.

Francis Demeules · May 30, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

It just just those spells which it writes The next attack.... your arrow to the left will be affected.